So far this year Mozilla has: Discontinued Firefox Send and Notes, laid off employees, announced they're shifting focus away from their web browser, introduced Mozilla VPN (reskinned Mullvad with Mozilla telemetry), Firefox Monitor (all breaches sourced from haveibeenpwned), and introduced "Firefox Private Network" (a VPN that isn't Mozilla VPN, only works with Firefox Desktop, and uses Cloudflare).

I believe this is what you call a "lack of direction"

Oh, and Firefox Private Network™️ is for some reason only available in the US...?

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I feel like Mozilla keeps introducing all of these proprietary network services aimed at privacy minded folks while also not realizing their services are less private than the self-hostable libre alternatives that people concerned about privacy already use.

They also keep trying to bake these "features" into their browser which leads to more telemetry, which leads to privacy minded folks forking Firefox and stripping out the telemetry and ads for Mozilla services.

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@polarisfm I feel like they're trying to market themselves to tech-illiterate or tech-lite people, and it's pushing away many of the other people who have been using their services and products for a long time.

@oddity This was my thought too, but then I realized that tech illiterate/tech-lite people don't use Firefox, they use Chromium (Chrome, Opera, Vivaldi, Edge, etc).

It doesn't make sense. The one place Mozilla-based browsers actually have a majority marketshare is with tech literate, privacy minded folks.

Why pivot from that? My mom doesn't know the difference between Firefox and Chromium besides the fact the buttons are in different places.

@polarisfm It really does feel like they're advertising to an audience they don't have, and even worse, in doing so are trending toward just becoming effectively the same as bloated chromium browsers. Things might be different on the backend, but the philosophy seems to be becoming the same. Convenience over autonomy.

@polarisfm There are already so few available options for browsers, and the idea of them all simply copying each other and further enforcing the monoculture deeply frustrates me.

@oddity Exactly. I used to think Pale Moon was more-or-less pointless, but given the direction Mozilla is pushing Firefox I actually understand the appeal at this point.

Mozilla used to be about freedom, now it's about being less-bad Chromium

@oddity I wasn't angry like some were when WebExt replaced XUL. I'd say I was cautiously optimistic. But most Mozilla's actions that followed showed that people who were panicking and angry were more justified than I ever thought they'd be.

@polarisfm @oddity hhhhh yeah but palemoon is apparently made by fash and that stuff is just really not fun aaaaaaaa

@oddity @polarisfm THERE ARE LIKE!!!! literally no good options out there,,,,! maybe like???? midori???? idk??????????? probably not midori???

@pastelpunkbandit > apparently made by fash

Apparently? I haven't seen these accusations about them before. Can you elaborate? @oddity

@polarisfm My ake of Mozilla current choices, are trying to found a stable source of monetization, that doesn´t harm the user directly. Mozilla still actually depend on a lot of Google search engine deal, which they know is a bad habit. I do agree that all those service they propose, still doesn’t do better than already FOSS alternatives, nor, actually invent something. I’m currently still using Firefox, but I’m severely scared of being forced to switch to a chromium browser soon.

@polarisfm @acciomath Shut down back in July due to a high level of abuse, then a few days ago announced it won't come back.

@polarisfm They killed Notes? Dang, I quite liked that.

More like a lack of innovation.


We should start a thread with alternatives. What is the most viable alternative these days?

From the top of my head
- Chromium (freeworld)
- Midori
- Epiphany
- GNU IceCat
- Eolie

Any thoughts? ideas? suggestions?

@johannesg @polarisfm I'm building "Odysseus" (also based on WebKitGTK like Midori & Epiphany), but have decided more radical measures are warrented!

I'm building an auditory browser "Rhapsode", and am planning "Haphaestus" for use on TVs with ordinary remotes...

I also know of Dillo, NetSurf, & the commandline browsers like Lynx.

@johannesg Librewolf is one I recommend. Same principal as GNU Icecat but is based on mainline Firefox instead of ESR.

@polarisfm Seems to be rather painful experience to install Librewolf on Fedora, and the flatpak is quite buggy and barely supported it seems. But apart from that, looks great. Hope to see it readily available on flathub or fedora rpm in the future.

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